On 01/22/2011 11:10 PM, John Larkin wrote:> I meant the damage likely *done* by that lab. We'd been speculating > how Xininx managed to snarl up their software so thoroughly, and > whether they will ever get it fixed. I can't imagine why they'd > outsource something this important to France.One word, Alcatel. Jon
Xilinx news
Started by ●January 22, 2011
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Jan 24, 2:09 am, David Brown <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:> I find it hard to believe that supposedly educated, intelligent and > experienced engineers can post such ignorant xenophobic drivel. > > Xilinx (or rather, their users and customers) have trouble with the > Xilinx software because the Xilinx leadership do not prioritise it > appropriately, and (apparently) do not listen to or understand the > issues customers have with the software. They alone are at fault. It > could well be that the main management fault was to hire a development > team that was not competent to do the development - but the problem is > their lack of competence, not their nationality! > > I know that sci.electronics.design is a hangout for mostly geriatric > American right-wingers who like to spend their free time blaming the > world's ills on "leftist weenies", foreigners, atheists, intellectuals, > and other dangerous sub-humans.You left out OUTSOURCING, Downsizing, dumping out staff en masse and hiring them all back as contractors to avoid social responsibilities, Pensions and raiding thereof, H1b visas and the way corporations take classes on how to BS around the law that requires them to hire qualified US people for the jobs first, etc. (Where WERE you back in Jan 2010 when that was discussed?) I would EXPECT that most US Engineers would be very well focused on all of those threats to their livelyhood, wouldn't you?? If you're gonna try this Xenophobia canard you MIGHT want to WATCH THIS FIRST! (Even more references at bottom of post) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU> That's fair enough, within the limits > of freedom of speech. It can even be entertaining at times. But please > keep that sort of thing within s.e.d. and not serious newsgroups. > > Follow-up flames to s.e.d., and leave c.a.f. alone for a possible > discussion about the actual effect of this news on Xilinx and its customers.I look forward to you serious discussion and problem resolution. On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:30:17 -0800, "Joel Koltner" wrote: Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought the first response to that article: "Xilinx sell hardware, software especially high level tools is secondary." ...was a bit clueless! On Jan 24, 11:49 am, John Larkin wrote: And the bitstream structure is secret, so third parties can't supply end-to-end software, as far as I'm aware. I bet some small IP house could do a better job. ----------------------------------- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/msg/3f074e88bda71375 PERM Fake Job Ads defraud Americans to secure green cards for H-1b workers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU> Immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explains how they assist > employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any > qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even > the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1b > workers. See what politicians call a "shortage of skilled U.S. > workers." Microsoft, Oracle, Hewlett-Packard, and thousands of other > companies are running fake ads in Sunday newspapers across the country > each week.G > Has Obama reversed this fraud? "Ban" through a german anonymous remailer motzarella wrote Ban > Sorry you didn't find a job, but maybe it's because your Ban > qualification is sub standard. I wouldn't employ a Ban > complainer like this who blames all those Mexicans for Ban > taking away engineering jobs. ciao Ban Hillary Clinton Pushes For More H1B Visas and OutSourcing June 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs Hillary Clinton reaffirms support for more H-1B visas July 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOW0cUaGWZU H 1B visa racket busted in US, 11 Indians arrested Feb 14, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaofpy3D-oE H1-B visa bar disappoints young Indians Feb 16, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohaSa_1WZVo Visa Consultants selling H-1b visas July 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOqOxYr4F18 WashTech on Microsoft Replacing American Workers Feb 10 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwnvkK94o3I Immigration Gumballs - notice the graphs Nov 2006 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:21:27 -0800, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:> >I'd have been equally surprised had they outsourced anything this >core-critical to any other country that far from San Jose. Big >Software is nearly impossible to manage even without an ocean in the >way.If you intend to outsource something, you really must concentrate on writing sensible _good_quality_ specifications. With the coders in the next cubicle (at least in the same time zone), you can always discuss the problems immediately, With development teams in the Americas, Europe and Asia, the common real time discussion window is quite limited due to the time zones.
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Jan 24, 1:58=A0pm, Jon Elson <jmel...@wustl.edu> wrote:> On 01/22/2011 11:10 PM, John Larkin wrote: > > > I meant the damage likely *done* by that lab. We'd been speculating > > how [ Xilinx ] managed to snarl up their software so thoroughly, and > > whether they will ever get it fixed. I can't imagine why they'd > > outsource something this important to France. > > One word, Alcatel. > > JonHistory The formation of Alcatel-Lucent created the world=92s first truly global communications solutions provider, with the most complete end-to-end portfolio of solutions and services in the industry. Alcatel-Lucent combined two entities =97 Alcatel and Lucent Technologies =97 which shared a common lineage dating back to 1986. That was the year Alcatel=92s parent company, CGE (la Compagnie G=E9n=E9rale d=92Electricit= =E9), acquired ITT=92s European telecom business. Nearly 60 years earlier, ITT had purchased most of AT&T=92s manufacturing operations outside the United States. Lucent Technologies was spun off from AT&T.
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
PA > ** You are a total cunthead and a massive liar. krw > You already said that Phyllis. =A0You're not adding anything to the group now. dsk > This will help deal with Phyllis: Nah. Phil is nastier than a hemmorhoid.
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:17:46 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:>On Jan 24, 1:58�pm, Jon Elson <jmel...@wustl.edu> wrote: >> On 01/22/2011 11:10 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> >> > I meant the damage likely *done* by that lab. We'd been speculating >> > how [ Xilinx ] managed to snarl up their software so thoroughly, and >> > whether they will ever get it fixed. I can't imagine why they'd >> > outsource something this important to France. >> >> One word, Alcatel. >> >> Jon > >History > >The formation of Alcatel-Lucent created the world�s first truly global >communications solutions provider, with the most complete end-to-end >portfolio of solutions and services in the industry. > >Alcatel-Lucent combined two entities � Alcatel and Lucent Technologies >� which shared a common lineage dating back to 1986. That was the year >Alcatel�s parent company, CGE (la Compagnie G�n�rale d�Electricit�), >acquired ITT�s European telecom business. Nearly 60 years earlier, ITT >had purchased most of AT&T�s manufacturing operations outside the >United States. Lucent Technologies was spun off from AT&T.Lucent was briefly in the FPGA business, Xilinx clones I think. So did the Lucent-Alcatel thing result in Xilinx picking up the French group? John
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:51:12 -0800 (PST), rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On Jan 24, 12:21�pm, John Larkin ><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:09:42 +0100, David Brown >> >> <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: >> >> >I find it hard to believe that supposedly educated, intelligent and >> >experienced engineers can post such ignorant xenophobic drivel. >> >> Well, two facts exist: >> >> 1. Their software is a nightmare, and it's costing them business >> >> 2. They are dumping the French operation. >> >> The software is the heart of an FPGA company. The very architecture of >> the chip has to be coordinated with possible compiler strategies. The >> idea of outsourcing anything this important to a group 8 or 9 time >> zones away, working in another language, in a country where it's >> almost impossible to fire incompetant workers, where people take long >> lunches with wine and don't work weekends, just amazes me. > >This is probably a discussion to stay out of, but I want to correct a >misapprehension on your part. I have worked with the French at a >major telecom company and will tell you that they are no more >incompetent or drunk than American workers. The continent does have a >different work culture in terms of leave. They get lots more vacation >than we typically do and they manage to get their work done without >working late nights and weekends. > >Actually I have always thought it very odd that US workers were >willing to take on the burden of completing projects on time and >budget when they have little or no say in the process of setting those >goals. Lets face it. Being willing to work unlimited, unpaid >overtime is something that the majority of workers in the US are >unwilling to do. For some reason engineers seem to be in a class all >by themselves in that regard here in the US. What other professions >are willing to do that? > > >> >Xilinx (or rather, their users and customers) have trouble with the >> >Xilinx software because the Xilinx leadership do not prioritise it >> >appropriately, and (apparently) do not listen to or understand the >> >issues customers have with the software. �They alone are at fault. �It >> >could well be that the main management fault was to hire a development >> >team that was not competent to do the development - but the problem is >> >their lack of competence, not their nationality! >> >> I'd have been equally surprised had they outsourced anything this >> core-critical to any other country that far from San Jose. Big >> Software is nearly impossible to manage even without an ocean in the >> way. > >Distance doesn't create problems in management... management creates >problems in management. I've worked on projects where no two people >were in the same city and they progressed well, except for the >management which kept feeding lies upstream in order to tell them what >they wanted to hear. I guess one difference is that it is a bit >harder to manage by "walking around", something upper management >should do. Then they can find out things that they aren't being >told. > >But none of this has to do with nationality. > >Rickhttp://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212317/Xilinx--sales-fall-short-of-estimates "Xilinx recorded $4.3 million worth of restructuring charges during the recently concluded quarter. Olson said the charges were greater than expected because the company is closing its software development operation in France, where regulations make eliminating jobs difficult." John
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
Le 24/01/2011 20:51, rickman a �crit :> This is probably a discussion to stay out of, but I want to correct a > misapprehension on your part. I have worked with the French at a > major telecom company and will tell you that they are no more > incompetent or drunk than American workers. The continent does have a > different work culture in terms of leave. They get lots more vacation > than we typically do and they manage to get their work done without > working late nights and weekends.Thanks Rick. Working late nights happens sometimes, though. (and now I'll stay out of the discussion but will keep watching with great interest since I happen to be French) Nicolas
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:51:12 -0800 (PST), rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: <snip>>This is probably a discussion to stay out of, but I want to correct a >misapprehension on your part. I have worked with the French at a >major telecom company and will tell you that they are no more >incompetent or drunk than American workers. The continent does have a >different work culture in terms of leave. They get lots more vacation >than we typically do and they manage to get their work done without >working late nights and weekends. > >Actually I have always thought it very odd that US workers were >willing to take on the burden of completing projects on time and >budget when they have little or no say in the process of setting those >goals. Lets face it. Being willing to work unlimited, unpaid >overtime is something that the majority of workers in the US are >unwilling to do. For some reason engineers seem to be in a class all >by themselves in that regard here in the US. What other professions >are willing to do that? >this is definitely a sore point for me. We all have our 'Project from Hell' and mine involved a French company. The company that hired me had a contract to develop and install some new technology. The customer hired a French company to verify that we met the contract requirements. Now, we were doing things that, to this point, no one had done before, and the best part was that none of us had ever even worked in this INDUSTRY before. We didn't know what couldn't be done! Now, the interesting thing about the French company, was how they kept 'interpretting' the contract requirements, and asking for tests that I realized had nothing whatsoever to do with the project we were working on. They were taking all our results and technologies, including our software, and just shipping it to the home office to use in their own projects! Now, the real reason it was the project from hell, was that the management was ALL ex-military. They had very little technical expertise, and they seemed to feel that success required only two things - their orders to get something done, and sufficient effort on our part to follow their orders. It was common to work seven days a week, 10 to 12 hours a day, and they were chewing us out daily that we were behind schedule! The truth was, all of the workers were so burned out that we could barely think, much less be creative and solve problems as they came up. I remember coming in one morning, and noticing a co-worker (who was one of their darlings. It was rumored that he worked so late that, when he went home, he slept in his car because he was too tired to climb the stairs. He got up at 6, went up and showered and changed, and then went in to work!) Anyway, I noticed that he was typing up a test procedure - click... click... click... click at about one letter a second. He was dead on his feet, and it was only 7:30 in the morning! They laid me off just before the end of the project - I wasn't putting in enough effort! I was only working 65- 70 hours a week! Charlie
Reply by ●January 24, 20112011-01-24
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:51:12 -0800 (PST), rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>Distance doesn't create problems in management... management creates >problems in management. I've worked on projects where no two people >were in the same city and they progressed well, except for the >management which kept feeding lies upstream in order to tell them what >they wanted to hear. I guess one difference is that it is a bit >harder to manage by "walking around", something upper management >should do. Then they can find out things that they aren't being >told. >Actually, distance DOES create problems in management, and modern management techniques are not very effective. The ability to manage a distributed workforce is a very rare talent. Among the requirements, is enough technical skill to be able to divide the task into appropriate pieces, and have the ability to make sure that all the system requirements are complete, and that they are being met by each member of the team. It also requires the right sort of project, where inter-member interaction is only needed for specific tasks, and not for just general co-ordination... Charlie
