Help me choose an FPGA to design network protocols

PM X:
> On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 11:38:27 AM UTC-7, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 8/29/2016 1:32 PM, rickman wrote:
>> > On 8/29/2016 4:58 AM, PM X wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> UDP/IP is much simpler the TCP/IP. It is commonly done in FPGAs.
>> >>>
>> >>> For example:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.fpga4fun.com/10BASE-T.html
>> >>>
>> >>> OK. It is only 10Base-T. But it's not that different than the
10GbE that
>> >>> we do.
>> >>>
>> >>> You can get a crappy NIC and Basys 3 Artix 7 board for less than
$200.00
>> >>>
>> >>>
http://store.digilentinc.com/pmodnic100-network-interface-controller/
>> >>>
>> >>> It won't be low latency (the NIC has an SPI serial interface) but
it
>> >>> will teach concepts.
>> >>>
>> >>> Rob.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks. Is this the board you are referring to?
>> >>
http://store.digilentinc.com/basys-3-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-introductory-users/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If so, this board doesn't seem to have SPI (at least no listed in
the
>> >> description). Also, do you think this board has enough capacity
(in
>> >> terms of logic elements, etc.) to support a fairly complicated
design
>> >> like UDP/IP?
>> >
>> > What do you mean it doesn't have SPI?  SPI is a simple shift
register
>> > interface which can *easily* be implemented in an FPGA (or MCU)
using
>> > the GPIOs.
>> >
>> > Do you mean ISP, in system programming?  If it doesn't have ISP how
do
>> > you load your design?
>> >
>>
>> It's a FPGA, you can add SPI easily, there are IPs for free to allow
>> that to happen.
>>
>> In my post I was also going to mention the BASYS-3  board, I left it
out
>> because the Arty Board has a ton of memory available that this one
>> doesn't but this on has a lot of switches and LED which can be
handy.
>> --
>> Cecil - k5nwa
> 
> OK, thanks. I will check out both of them. What is the largest design
you (or someone you know) have implemented on these boards? The Artix
line seems to be lower end than Virtex line, so trying to get an idea if
they can support somewhat complicated designs.

I haven't used the Arty except on a 1 day Xilinx "get to know Vivado"
jolly. It's quite anice board. We are looking at alternatives to Lattice
(no big reason, just due diligence) with a design currently running on a
Lattice ECP3-35. The FPGA on the Arty could easily do Ethernet trispeed
MAC, IP, ARP, UDP and some more. (We do this on the Lattice (about 20%
of it) so I know of what I speak (at least that far)) TCP on the FPGA
would be bigger (could be much bigger).

As an aside - why does HF trading use TCP - (think of this as an
interview question :-)

Our UDP support is good at transmitting, poor at receiving ('coz that's
what we need) - it does support an in-house protocol for re-transmission
and message integrity - much simpler than TCP and faster.

By the time you've outgrown the Arty you've either done the career shift
or it isn't going happen.

Michael Kellett

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 8:37:44 AM UTC-7, Michael Kellett wrote:
> PM X:
> > On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 11:38:27 AM UTC-7, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> >> On 8/29/2016 1:32 PM, rickman wrote:
> >> > On 8/29/2016 4:58 AM, PM X wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> UDP/IP is much simpler the TCP/IP. It is commonly done in FPGAs.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> For example:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> http://www.fpga4fun.com/10BASE-T.html
> >> >>>
> >> >>> OK. It is only 10Base-T. But it's not that different than the
> 10GbE that
> >> >>> we do.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You can get a crappy NIC and Basys 3 Artix 7 board for less than
> $200.00
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> http://store.digilentinc.com/pmodnic100-network-interface-controller/
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It won't be low latency (the NIC has an SPI serial interface) but
> it
> >> >>> will teach concepts.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Rob.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks. Is this the board you are referring to?
> >> >>
> http://store.digilentinc.com/basys-3-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-introductory-users/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If so, this board doesn't seem to have SPI (at least no listed in
> the
> >> >> description). Also, do you think this board has enough capacity
> (in
> >> >> terms of logic elements, etc.) to support a fairly complicated
> design
> >> >> like UDP/IP?
> >> >
> >> > What do you mean it doesn't have SPI?  SPI is a simple shift
> register
> >> > interface which can *easily* be implemented in an FPGA (or MCU)
> using
> >> > the GPIOs.
> >> >
> >> > Do you mean ISP, in system programming?  If it doesn't have ISP how
> do
> >> > you load your design?
> >> >
> >>
> >> It's a FPGA, you can add SPI easily, there are IPs for free to allow
> >> that to happen.
> >>
> >> In my post I was also going to mention the BASYS-3  board, I left it
> out
> >> because the Arty Board has a ton of memory available that this one
> >> doesn't but this on has a lot of switches and LED which can be
> handy.
> >> --
> >> Cecil - k5nwa
> > 
> > OK, thanks. I will check out both of them. What is the largest design
> you (or someone you know) have implemented on these boards? The Artix
> line seems to be lower end than Virtex line, so trying to get an idea if
> they can support somewhat complicated designs.
> 
> I haven't used the Arty except on a 1 day Xilinx "get to know Vivado"
> jolly. It's quite anice board. We are looking at alternatives to Lattice
> (no big reason, just due diligence) with a design currently running on a
> Lattice ECP3-35. The FPGA on the Arty could easily do Ethernet trispeed
> MAC, IP, ARP, UDP and some more. (We do this on the Lattice (about 20%
> of it) so I know of what I speak (at least that far)) TCP on the FPGA
> would be bigger (could be much bigger).
> 
> As an aside - why does HF trading use TCP - (think of this as an
> interview question :-)
> 
> Our UDP support is good at transmitting, poor at receiving ('coz that's
> what we need) - it does support an in-house protocol for re-transmission
> and message integrity - much simpler than TCP and faster.
> 
> By the time you've outgrown the Arty you've either done the career shift
> or it isn't going happen.
> 
> Michael Kellett

Since many people have suggested Arty, I was giving it a serious thought. But although it does have ethernet (which I need), it does not have any kind of video output like VGA (I would strongly prefer to get a board with some kind of video output as well besides ethernet). I do not want to try and add VGA to it as I have no experience with that stuff. Another Digilent board that I really liked is the Nexys 4 DDR, which has both ethernet and VGA. But the price is a little over my budget at $320. I am trying to do this within $200, although I it can go up a bit (to maybe $300) if I don't find any good option in the "< $200" range.

To re-iterate, I am looking for a board with a Xilinx FPGA (preferably Artix-7) that uses the Vivado software. And as stated above, I want ethernet and video output connectivity support. So now that I have a clearer idea than before, if somebody can suggest a board meeting the above requirements (in the $200 range), that will be great.

So far I had only been looking at boards from Digilent, but I just came across another company called Avnet which also sells Xilinx boards. They seem to have a lot more choices when I search for a board with Artix-7 (while Digilent has only 3 or 4). I didn't understand very clearly what type of boards they sell. Do they make them or do they just distribute the boards made by Xilinx? Which one would be a better option - Digilent or Avnet? Or something else?

Thanks.

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 8:37:44 AM UTC-7, Michael Kellett wrote:
> PM X:
> > On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 11:38:27 AM UTC-7, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> >> On 8/29/2016 1:32 PM, rickman wrote:
> >> > On 8/29/2016 4:58 AM, PM X wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> UDP/IP is much simpler the TCP/IP. It is commonly done in FPGAs.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> For example:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> http://www.fpga4fun.com/10BASE-T.html
> >> >>>
> >> >>> OK. It is only 10Base-T. But it's not that different than the
> 10GbE that
> >> >>> we do.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You can get a crappy NIC and Basys 3 Artix 7 board for less than
> $200.00
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> http://store.digilentinc.com/pmodnic100-network-interface-controller/
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It won't be low latency (the NIC has an SPI serial interface) but
> it
> >> >>> will teach concepts.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Rob.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks. Is this the board you are referring to?
> >> >>
> http://store.digilentinc.com/basys-3-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-introductory-users/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If so, this board doesn't seem to have SPI (at least no listed in
> the
> >> >> description). Also, do you think this board has enough capacity
> (in
> >> >> terms of logic elements, etc.) to support a fairly complicated
> design
> >> >> like UDP/IP?
> >> >
> >> > What do you mean it doesn't have SPI?  SPI is a simple shift
> register
> >> > interface which can *easily* be implemented in an FPGA (or MCU)
> using
> >> > the GPIOs.
> >> >
> >> > Do you mean ISP, in system programming?  If it doesn't have ISP how
> do
> >> > you load your design?
> >> >
> >>
> >> It's a FPGA, you can add SPI easily, there are IPs for free to allow
> >> that to happen.
> >>
> >> In my post I was also going to mention the BASYS-3  board, I left it
> out
> >> because the Arty Board has a ton of memory available that this one
> >> doesn't but this on has a lot of switches and LED which can be
> handy.
> >> --
> >> Cecil - k5nwa
> > 
> > OK, thanks. I will check out both of them. What is the largest design
> you (or someone you know) have implemented on these boards? The Artix
> line seems to be lower end than Virtex line, so trying to get an idea if
> they can support somewhat complicated designs.
> 
> I haven't used the Arty except on a 1 day Xilinx "get to know Vivado"
> jolly. It's quite anice board. We are looking at alternatives to Lattice
> (no big reason, just due diligence) with a design currently running on a
> Lattice ECP3-35. The FPGA on the Arty could easily do Ethernet trispeed
> MAC, IP, ARP, UDP and some more. (We do this on the Lattice (about 20%
> of it) so I know of what I speak (at least that far)) TCP on the FPGA
> would be bigger (could be much bigger).
> 
> As an aside - why does HF trading use TCP - (think of this as an
> interview question :-)
> 
> Our UDP support is good at transmitting, poor at receiving ('coz that's
> what we need) - it does support an in-house protocol for re-transmission
> and message integrity - much simpler than TCP and faster.
> 
> By the time you've outgrown the Arty you've either done the career shift
> or it isn't going happen.
> 
> Michael Kellett

Since many people have suggested Arty, I was giving it a serious thought. But although it does have ethernet (which I need), it does not have any kind of video output like VGA (I would strongly prefer to get a board with some kind of video output as well besides ethernet). I do not want to try and add VGA to it as I have no experience with that stuff. Another Digilent board that I really liked is the Nexys 4 DDR, which has both ethernet and VGA. But the price is a little over my budget at $320. I am trying to do this within $200, although I it can go up a bit (to maybe $300) if I don't find any good option in the "< $200" range.

To re-iterate, I am looking for a board with a Xilinx FPGA (preferably Artix-7) that uses the Vivado software. And as stated above, I want ethernet and video output connectivity support. So now that I have a clearer idea than before, if somebody can suggest a board meeting the above requirements (in the $200 range), that will be great.

So far I had only been looking at boards from Digilent, but I just came across another company called Avnet which also sells Xilinx boards. They seem to have a lot more choices when I search for a board with Artix-7 (while Digilent has only 3 or 4). I didn't understand very clearly what type of boards they sell. Do they make them or do they just distribute the boards made by Xilinx? Which one would be a better option - Digilent or Avnet? Or something else?

Thanks.