Xilinx news

<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>


** You are a total cunthead and a massive liar.

   Get off SED.


.... Phil

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:40:41 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

>
>
><krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>
>
>
>** You are a total cunthead and a massive liar.

Phyllis, your needle is stuck.

>   Get off SED.

Not a chance, Phyllis,

On 23/01/2011 06:10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:03:16 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
> <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:20:55 -0800, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212400/Xilinx-to-shutter-French-R-D-operation
>>>
>>> Yikes, this explains some stuff. I wonder how long it will take to
>>> undo the damage.
>>
>> Damage?  The damage caused by closing a software development lab?
>
> I meant the damage likely *done* by that lab. We'd been speculating
> how Xininx managed to snarl up their software so thoroughly, and
> whether they will ever get it fixed. I can't imagine why they'd
> outsource something this important to France.
>

I find it hard to believe that supposedly educated, intelligent and 
experienced engineers can post such ignorant xenophobic drivel.

Xilinx (or rather, their users and customers) have trouble with the 
Xilinx software because the Xilinx leadership do not prioritise it 
appropriately, and (apparently) do not listen to or understand the 
issues customers have with the software.  They alone are at fault.  It 
could well be that the main management fault was to hire a development 
team that was not competent to do the development - but the problem is 
their lack of competence, not their nationality!

I know that sci.electronics.design is a hangout for mostly geriatric 
American right-wingers who like to spend their free time blaming the 
world's ills on "leftist weenies", foreigners, atheists, intellectuals, 
and other dangerous sub-humans.  That's fair enough, within the limits 
of freedom of speech.  It can even be entertaining at times.  But please 
keep that sort of thing within s.e.d. and not serious newsgroups.

Follow-up flames to s.e.d., and leave c.a.f. alone for a possible 
discussion about the actual effect of this news on Xilinx and its customers.

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:09:42 +0100, David Brown
<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

>On 23/01/2011 06:10, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:03:16 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
>> <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:20:55 -0800, John Larkin
>>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212400/Xilinx-to-shutter-French-R-D-operation
>>>>
>>>> Yikes, this explains some stuff. I wonder how long it will take to
>>>> undo the damage.
>>>
>>> Damage?  The damage caused by closing a software development lab?
>>
>> I meant the damage likely *done* by that lab. We'd been speculating
>> how Xininx managed to snarl up their software so thoroughly, and
>> whether they will ever get it fixed. I can't imagine why they'd
>> outsource something this important to France.
>>
>
>I find it hard to believe that supposedly educated, intelligent and 
>experienced engineers can post such ignorant xenophobic drivel.

Well, two facts exist:

1. Their software is a nightmare, and it's costing them business

2. They are dumping the French operation.

The software is the heart of an FPGA company. The very architecture of
the chip has to be coordinated with possible compiler strategies. The
idea of outsourcing anything this important to a group 8 or 9 time
zones away, working in another language, in a country where it's
almost impossible to fire incompetant workers, where people take long
lunches with wine and don't work weekends, just amazes me.

>
>Xilinx (or rather, their users and customers) have trouble with the 
>Xilinx software because the Xilinx leadership do not prioritise it 
>appropriately, and (apparently) do not listen to or understand the 
>issues customers have with the software.  They alone are at fault.  It 
>could well be that the main management fault was to hire a development 
>team that was not competent to do the development - but the problem is 
>their lack of competence, not their nationality!

I'd have been equally surprised had they outsourced anything this
core-critical to any other country that far from San Jose. Big
Software is nearly impossible to manage even without an ocean in the
way.


>
>I know that sci.electronics.design is a hangout for mostly geriatric 
>American right-wingers who like to spend their free time blaming the 
>world's ills on "leftist weenies", foreigners, atheists, intellectuals, 
>and other dangerous sub-humans. 

Jim isn't typical.

John

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message 
news:4gcrj690ue2un4cu7d0fen5vjcq43pci6l@4ax.com...
> The software is the heart of an FPGA company.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought the first response to that 
article:

"Xilinx sell hardware, software especially high level tools is secondary."

...was a bit clueless!

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:30:17 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message 
>news:4gcrj690ue2un4cu7d0fen5vjcq43pci6l@4ax.com...
>> The software is the heart of an FPGA company.
>
>Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought the first response to that 
>article:
>
>"Xilinx sell hardware, software especially high level tools is secondary."
>
>...was a bit clueless!

And the bitstream structure is secret, so third parties can't supply
end-to-end software, as far as I'm aware. I bet some small IP house
could do a better job. 

John

On Jan 23, 1:36=A0pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:35:19 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wr=
ote:
>
> ><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>
>
> >** You are a total cunthead and a massive liar.
>
> You already said that Phyllis. =A0You're not adding anything to the group=
 now.

This will help deal with Phyllis: <http://groups.google.com/group/
comp.arch.fpga/browse_thread/thread/b633ae5fc3619c99#>

John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:09:42 +0100, David Brown
> <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>  wrote:
>
>> On 23/01/2011 06:10, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:03:16 -0600, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
>>> <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:20:55 -0800, John Larkin
>>>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212400/Xilinx-to-shutter-French-R-D-operation
>>>>>
>>>>> Yikes, this explains some stuff. I wonder how long it will take to
>>>>> undo the damage.
>>>>
>>>> Damage?  The damage caused by closing a software development lab?
>>>
>>> I meant the damage likely *done* by that lab. We'd been speculating
>>> how Xininx managed to snarl up their software so thoroughly, and
>>> whether they will ever get it fixed. I can't imagine why they'd
>>> outsource something this important to France.
>>>
>>
>> I find it hard to believe that supposedly educated, intelligent and
>> experienced engineers can post such ignorant xenophobic drivel.
>
> Well, two facts exist:
>
> 1. Their software is a nightmare, and it's costing them business
>
> 2. They are dumping the French operation.
>
> The software is the heart of an FPGA company. The very architecture of
> the chip has to be coordinated with possible compiler strategies. The
> idea of outsourcing anything this important to a group 8 or 9 time
> zones away, working in another language, in a country where it's
> almost impossible to fire incompetant workers, where people take long
> lunches with wine and don't work weekends, just amazes me.
>

While there may or may not be a lot of French software workers
out there, I've worked with a handful who were pretty good.

And more than once, I've done things in software to where I *wished*
I'd taken a long lunch, with or without wine. :) Nothing
particularly tragic, there - software is specifically resistant
to both the work ethic and to other input analyses.

>>
>> Xilinx (or rather, their users and customers) have trouble with the
>> Xilinx software because the Xilinx leadership do not prioritise it
>> appropriately, and (apparently) do not listen to or understand the
>> issues customers have with the software.  They alone are at fault.  It
>> could well be that the main management fault was to hire a development
>> team that was not competent to do the development - but the problem is
>> their lack of competence, not their nationality!
>
> I'd have been equally surprised had they outsourced anything this
> core-critical to any other country that far from San Jose. Big
> Software is nearly impossible to manage even without an ocean in the
> way.
>

I'd almost say it's just equally impossible. Hard to say in detail
without specifics. But interfaces are always hard.

>
>>
>> I know that sci.electronics.design is a hangout for mostly geriatric
>> American right-wingers who like to spend their free time blaming the
>> world's ills on "leftist weenies", foreigners, atheists, intellectuals,
>> and other dangerous sub-humans.
>
> Jim isn't typical.
>
> John
>

--
Les Cargill

On Jan 24, 12:21=A0pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:09:42 +0100, David Brown
>
> <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:
>
> >I find it hard to believe that supposedly educated, intelligent and
> >experienced engineers can post such ignorant xenophobic drivel.
>
> Well, two facts exist:
>
> 1. Their software is a nightmare, and it's costing them business
>
> 2. They are dumping the French operation.
>
> The software is the heart of an FPGA company. The very architecture of
> the chip has to be coordinated with possible compiler strategies. The
> idea of outsourcing anything this important to a group 8 or 9 time
> zones away, working in another language, in a country where it's
> almost impossible to fire incompetant workers, where people take long
> lunches with wine and don't work weekends, just amazes me.

This is probably a discussion to stay out of, but I want to correct a
misapprehension on your part.  I have worked with the French at a
major telecom company and will tell you that they are no more
incompetent or drunk than American workers.  The continent does have a
different work culture in terms of leave.  They get lots more vacation
than we typically do and they manage to get their work done without
working late nights and weekends.

Actually I have always thought it very odd that US workers were
willing to take on the burden of completing projects on time and
budget when they have little or no say in the process of setting those
goals.  Lets face it.  Being willing to work unlimited, unpaid
overtime is something that the majority of workers in the US are
unwilling to do.  For some reason engineers seem to be in a class all
by themselves in that regard here in the US.  What other professions
are willing to do that?


> >Xilinx (or rather, their users and customers) have trouble with the
> >Xilinx software because the Xilinx leadership do not prioritise it
> >appropriately, and (apparently) do not listen to or understand the
> >issues customers have with the software. =A0They alone are at fault. =A0=
It
> >could well be that the main management fault was to hire a development
> >team that was not competent to do the development - but the problem is
> >their lack of competence, not their nationality!
>
> I'd have been equally surprised had they outsourced anything this
> core-critical to any other country that far from San Jose. Big
> Software is nearly impossible to manage even without an ocean in the
> way.

Distance doesn't create problems in management... management creates
problems in management.  I've worked on projects where no two people
were in the same city and they progressed well, except for the
management which kept feeding lies upstream in order to tell them what
they wanted to hear.  I guess one difference is that it is a bit
harder to manage by "walking around", something upper management
should do.  Then they can find out things that they aren't being
told.

But none of this has to do with nationality.

Rick

On Jan 24, 12:49=A0pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:30:17 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
>
> <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in mess=
age
> >news:4gcrj690ue2un4cu7d0fen5vjcq43pci6l@4ax.com...
> >> The software is the heart of an FPGA company.
>
> >Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought the first response to that
> >article:
>
> >"Xilinx sell hardware, software especially high level tools is secondary=
."
>
> >...was a bit clueless!
>
> And the bitstream structure is secret, so third parties can't supply
> end-to-end software, as far as I'm aware. I bet some small IP house
> could do a better job.
>
> John

They did, it was called NeoCAD and they were bought by Xilinx!

Rick